BijanBlog: Mark Cuban: We don't think you are stupid but that doesn't mean we agree
DonRyan
· 9 months ago
These are excellent points. I'm 40 and my kids (18, 8, 6) live online. Whether it's Facebook or Cartoon Network's website, they are driven by on-demand consumption. Unlike me, they don't care that the network scheduled a particular program at a particular time and would like me to watch it on our television. Their main vehicle of consumption is a laptop, not a television. If the current producers of content want to stop the decline of eyeballs viewing their program, they should embrace delivery methods outside of the television set.
bijan
· 9 months ago
Well said.
Steven Kane
· 9 months ago
Mr. Cuban's motives are plain and simple - he has MASSIVELY invested in the existing cable model -- HDNet, etc -- so of course he is going to talk up that model and talk down whatever threatens it
As Oliver Stone wrote, "Follow the money."
Separately, I'm intrigued by your suggestion that "piracy... will continue to thrive if content owners don’t figure out the internet."
Figure out what?
Piracy is about getting something for nothing -- something that one would otherwise have to pay for.
Even if content owners figure out the internet -- as well as cold fusion, and how to bring back our loved ones from the dead -- piracy will always thrive unless the market price of a given product becomes zero, making piracy irrelevant. That's kind of basic economics, I think, as much about knock-off handbags as about Boxee or HDNet.
No?
bijan
· 9 months ago
that's a good point Steve.
I meant embrarce the web.
Mark motives are pretty clear i guess
but so are mine :)
bijan
· 9 months ago
Steve,
I made an edit to the "figure out" line
it wasn't the message I was trying to communicate.
-bijan
Mo Koyfman
· 9 months ago
Steve is dead on. Mark is just being self serving...as he always is...
bijan
· 9 months ago
We all are !
Jeff Giddens
· 9 months ago
Bijan -
in response to your comment - "Who would have thought that movies are showing up on iTunes the same day as DVD release. That is a big change. Next up, I bet that movies will show up on VOD and iTunes the same day it’s in the threater. That will change the windowing business model big time - but it’s inevitable."
HDNet and Magnolia Pictures premiere movies on VOD a month before the theatrical release - then, they premiere on HDNet Movies two days before hitting theaters. The windows have already changed.
Full disclosure - HDNet employee. Your blog is always a great read.
bijan
· 9 months ago
Jeff.
I didn't know that hdnet was on vod before the theatrical release. That's cool.
What is the theatrical reach of a typical hdnet movie?
Wouldn't it be great if all movies were made available for home viewing (broadband and vod) the same day as theatrical release.
I would be happy to pay more for this benefit.
-bijan
mark cuban
· 9 months ago
Thanks for the post Jeff, I can answer your question bijan. Todd wagner and I own Landmark Theaters, which is in 18 of the 20 largest markets. We own HDNet, which has 14mm subscribers. We own Magnolia Pictures that distributes on DVD, VOD, ITunes.
TOgether we created Ultra VOD. Here is how it works. We take a movie like Two Lovers (the movie Juaquin Phoenix was promoting on his infamous Letterman flipout appearance). Like all our Ultra VOD movies (which is most), we release them to pay VOD on cable and satellite companies THREE WEEKS before its theatrical release. We charge a premium for it (9.95 or a little more). It allows us to build a buzz for the movie and significantly cut our promotional costs forthe movie. The Wednesday before its friday theatrical release, we offer a free showing on HDNet Movies (on all major carriers but Cablevision), obviously as an incentive for people to subscribe.
Then the movie is released theatrically to markets we think are the best fit. We put it in Landmark Theaters along with other independently owned theaters (other than Clearview, the big chains like Regal, Cinemark, NAI have refused to show our Ultra VOD movies).
Then the movie is released shortly there after the DVD, Netflix, Itunes, Xbox,. Also , FWIW, we do not copy protect any of our DVDs. Its not worth wasting the money.
We have had great success with the model and are obviously unique in our approach.
What we dont do with HDNet however is stream our shows. We sell them on Itunes, XBox Live and DVD. If you want to buy them, we are happy to sell them. But we want the price you pay ala carte to act as an incentive for people to make the choice to subscribe to HDNet on their cable or sat provider.
bijan
· 9 months ago
Thanks Mark for the info
That is a great approach
Btw, nothing about boxee is opposed to pay per view or subscription online.
We already support netflix and more pay options coming
I am all for content owners getting paid.
willwhutson
· 9 months ago
"We have had great success with the model and are obviously unique in our approach."
I remember when you proposed this a couple years back and railed against the day and date approach to movies, and clear the lack of efficiency in marketing them primarily through theatrical releases (which I agreed with then, and do still now look at how DVD releases are getting closer and closer to theatricals), but now that you're a couple years in can you say its increased unit sales (across channels) YOY?
Or are your films operating as a loss leader for your HDNet subscribers?
Either way, when your investments are vertically integrated you're making your money somewhere, I guess its just a more precarious environment with players like boxee et al piping content cleanly through a laptop into an HD television.
mark cuban
· 9 months ago
you are twisting my comments from 2006. And you are taking poetic license with your own points.
The point I made back in 2006 was that in order to really watch HD in HD you actually had to connect to your HDTV with a digital or component connection. That watching HD content in HD was going to be limited by that factor. Which it has been.
I never said they wouldnt want to connect their TVs to their PCs to watch standard video. Although the reality is that even the number of people who do so is small, i can see why people like myself connect our big screens to our PCs, why wouldnt we ? That doesnt mean we prefer to use the net to watch HD or any video as our source.
The only place I underestimated usage is with XBox. They have done a great job of enabling their users to download and stream content. Particularly with their Netflix partnership. But even their delivery of content faces the same challenges of the last mile and in home bandwidth and their numbers are not huge for streaming either. All that said, and with all the techonlogical changes you refer to, TV viewership continues to increase. Even among young demos.
And I would challenge that I am resistant to change. In fact, its the exact opposite. There is nothing new or original about what is going on with internet video any more than there are new and exciting things going on with Desktop PCs or Windows App Software. When you get to a point where people are arguing about features and business plans, its a technology that has jumped the shark.
Internet Video is still consumed primarily during work hours and most of that afrom work. Bandwidth to the home is and will be constrained. Thats not to say it wont increase. Of course it will. But real creativity and change will come from applications that put the bandwidth to far better use than trying to copy TV.
If you want to talk about change, Im thrilled to talk about new application opportunities that are bandwidth hogs. The possibilities are endless, but they dont include internet video on demand.
If you want to talk about opportunity for change as it relates to traditional TV, im thrilled to talk about Tru2Way/EBIF, network DVRs and such. That is where the real change ishappening in the tv space. Its just not on the internet.
m
bijan
· 9 months ago
I linked to your post and my resonse at the time so people can draw their own conclusions.
(Yep you underestimated xbox and that is essentially my point)
How long have we been talking and waiting for cablecards/tru2way to really deliver.
By my count I remember talking about it back during my webtv and them msft days. Which was more than 10 years ago.
Just ask my friends at tivo how its going and how much you gotta add to the BOM to support multiple tuners/memory/sw to just make cablecard kinda work.
I have a hard time believing reports that tv usage is going up. That is from the same folks that say people who own DVRs still watch ads. Don't buy it
I have the numbers of people that stream online video from veoh and boxee. And they aren't doing it at work mostly. They are doing it at primetime.
dakini_3
· 9 months ago
Excellent blog and comments ...for those who's use of mobile computing is the norm ... Sitting in front of a stationary receiving device is often not an option in the Himalayas or Africa ... internet modalities provide a tiny slice of 'home' in the middle of some geographical nowhere ... Providers who do not get on board with that will lose traction. @dakini_3 and @SeedsCAN
All Comments
As Oliver Stone wrote, "Follow the money."
Separately, I'm intrigued by your suggestion that "piracy... will continue to thrive if content owners don’t figure out the internet."
Figure out what?
Piracy is about getting something for nothing -- something that one would otherwise have to pay for.
Even if content owners figure out the internet -- as well as cold fusion, and how to bring back our loved ones from the dead -- piracy will always thrive unless the market price of a given product becomes zero, making piracy irrelevant. That's kind of basic economics, I think, as much about knock-off handbags as about Boxee or HDNet.
No?
I meant embrarce the web.
Mark motives are pretty clear i guess
but so are mine :)
I made an edit to the "figure out" line
it wasn't the message I was trying to communicate.
-bijan
in response to your comment - "Who would have thought that movies are showing up on iTunes the same day as DVD release. That is a big change. Next up, I bet that movies will show up on VOD and iTunes the same day it’s in the threater. That will change the windowing business model big time - but it’s inevitable."
HDNet and Magnolia Pictures premiere movies on VOD a month before the theatrical release - then, they premiere on HDNet Movies two days before hitting theaters. The windows have already changed.
Full disclosure - HDNet employee. Your blog is always a great read.
I didn't know that hdnet was on vod before the theatrical release. That's cool.
What is the theatrical reach of a typical hdnet movie?
Wouldn't it be great if all movies were made available for home viewing (broadband and vod) the same day as theatrical release.
I would be happy to pay more for this benefit.
-bijan
TOgether we created Ultra VOD. Here is how it works. We take a movie like Two Lovers (the movie Juaquin Phoenix was promoting on his infamous Letterman flipout appearance). Like all our Ultra VOD movies (which is most), we release them to pay VOD on cable and satellite companies THREE WEEKS before its theatrical release. We charge a premium for it (9.95 or a little more). It allows us to build a buzz for the movie and significantly cut our promotional costs forthe movie.
The Wednesday before its friday theatrical release, we offer a free showing on HDNet Movies (on all major carriers but Cablevision), obviously as an incentive for people to subscribe.
Then the movie is released theatrically to markets we think are the best fit. We put it in Landmark Theaters along with other independently owned theaters (other than Clearview, the big chains like Regal, Cinemark, NAI have refused to show our Ultra VOD movies).
Then the movie is released shortly there after the DVD, Netflix, Itunes, Xbox,. Also , FWIW, we do not copy protect any of our DVDs. Its not worth wasting the money.
We have had great success with the model and are obviously unique in our approach.
What we dont do with HDNet however is stream our shows. We sell them on Itunes, XBox Live and DVD. If you want to buy them, we are happy to sell them. But we want the price you pay ala carte to act as an incentive for people to make the choice to subscribe to HDNet on their cable or sat provider.
That is a great approach
Btw, nothing about boxee is opposed to pay per view or subscription online.
We already support netflix and more pay options coming
I am all for content owners getting paid.
I remember when you proposed this a couple years back and railed against the day and date approach to movies, and clear the lack of efficiency in marketing them primarily through theatrical releases (which I agreed with then, and do still now look at how DVD releases are getting closer and closer to theatricals), but now that you're a couple years in can you say its increased unit sales (across channels) YOY?
Or are your films operating as a loss leader for your HDNet subscribers?
Either way, when your investments are vertically integrated you're making your money somewhere, I guess its just a more precarious environment with players like boxee et al piping content cleanly through a laptop into an HD television.
The point I made back in 2006 was that in order to really watch HD in HD you actually had to connect to your HDTV with a digital or component connection. That watching HD content in HD was going to be limited by that factor. Which it has been.
I never said they wouldnt want to connect their TVs to their PCs to watch standard video. Although the reality is that even the number of people who do so is small, i can see why people like myself connect our big screens to our PCs, why wouldnt we ? That doesnt mean we prefer to use the net to watch HD or any video as our source.
The only place I underestimated usage is with XBox. They have done a great job of enabling their users to download and stream content. Particularly with their Netflix partnership. But even their delivery of content faces the same challenges of the last mile and in home bandwidth and their numbers are not huge for streaming either. All that said, and with all the techonlogical changes you refer to, TV viewership continues to increase. Even among young demos.
And I would challenge that I am resistant to change. In fact, its the exact opposite. There is nothing new or original about what is going on with internet video any more than there are new and exciting things going on with Desktop PCs or Windows App Software. When you get to a point where people are arguing about features and business plans, its a technology that has jumped the shark.
Internet Video is still consumed primarily during work hours and most of that afrom work. Bandwidth to the home is and will be constrained. Thats not to say it wont increase. Of course it will. But real creativity and change will come from applications that put the bandwidth to far better use than trying to copy TV.
If you want to talk about change, Im thrilled to talk about new application opportunities that are bandwidth hogs. The possibilities are endless, but they dont include internet video on demand.
If you want to talk about opportunity for change as it relates to traditional TV, im thrilled to talk about Tru2Way/EBIF, network DVRs and such. That is where the real change ishappening in the tv space. Its just not on the internet.
m
(Yep you underestimated xbox and that is essentially my point)
How long have we been talking and waiting for cablecards/tru2way to really deliver.
By my count I remember talking about it back during my webtv and them msft days. Which was more than 10 years ago.
Just ask my friends at tivo how its going and how much you gotta add to the BOM to support multiple tuners/memory/sw to just make cablecard kinda work.
I have a hard time believing reports that tv usage is going up. That is from the same folks that say people who own DVRs still watch ads. Don't buy it
I have the numbers of people that stream online video from veoh and boxee. And they aren't doing it at work mostly. They are doing it at primetime.